Simply because they are children...
Watch this video that was made by Saudi blogger, Raed, author of Falsafat.
Reaction on this topic can be found here.
blog.bassamsebti@gmail.com
1.15.2009
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46 Comments:
There is no need to explain why a child's death is an outrage. This is how many Israelis see it:
http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/whats-going-gaza
Zak,
Was Hamas hiding at the UN headquarters in Gaza too? C'Mon, man.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/brown-condemns-israeli-attack-as-indefensible-1379873.html
It seems that Israel doesn't even want the UN to help the wounded and those in desperate need of food and water.
There is a saying in Iraq that roughly translates, "They don't have mercy on us and do not let God's mercy fall on us as well."
Bassam I cried once again when I saw that video : (
I am here where its safe and can not stand this any longer, what about all these innocent kids : ( there is nowhere they can find safety they are in a closed camp :( : (
I am pregnant and the whole time I can not get the fear out of my head and my body what if this was my little baby :( ohh
My heart was broken when I heard her speaking about how she couldn't even enjoy wearing her new sunglasses and bracelet.
This is unfair. It really is.
"Was Hamas hiding at the UN headquarters in Gaza too?"
So you're saying that Israel deliberately targetted the UN school. Bassam, that is speculation. You have to have some pretty outrageous assumptions about Israelis to think it was deliberate. And you also ignore the fact that it doesn't help Israel when it happens.
Since you accept that hamas take human shields, those assumptions have to be REALLY outrageous.
As for not having mercy on Gazans. You're demonizing us because its easy, and prevelant in the Arab world. There is a 3hr ceasefire every day to allow humanitarian aid in, and we have tried to allow civilians to leave areas of fighting by dropping leaflets and making phonecalls. I've said all along, this disaster was avoidable. Hamas had the choice to continue the ceasefire after it expired.
Nadia, I hope everything goes well with your pregnancy. I trust you won't be the kind of mother who puts a grenade in her child's hand, which is actually what I saw on one of the links Bassam posted.
I hope (and pray) we can engage one another respectfully,
Zak
"I trust you won't be the kind of mother who puts a grenade in her child's hand, which is actually what I saw on one of the links Bassam posted."
Zak,
I think I mentioned that posted the wrong link and I apologized for that. If my apology doesn't count then... whatever.
Teaching violence is not a way of a life. However, you have to remember that as the Palestinians teach their kids to carry a grenade, your country teaches you ride a tank. It's mutual.
"So you're saying that Israel deliberately targetted the UN school."
I'm not saying; I'm asking and questioning.
"And you also ignore the fact that it doesn't help Israel when it happens."
Israel itself is not helping itself. In this war, it created far more enemies than the Palestinians and a new generation that will never let you enjoy peace because they were deprived from it in this war and before it.
Zak your views are really something. As Bassam said and I say it in other words you really should start realising that many of us see no difference between sitting in a tank or military airplane sending bombs to kill people and the other things you talk about.
I wonder have you ever told an American or Israeli pregnant woman that you hope she will not be the kind of mother that let her kid become a person who has killing other people as a "job"?
Or that you hope that the Israeli pregnant women don't become the mother that let her kid join an army which commits crimes against humanity?
----
http://mwcnews.net/images/stories/Israel/1/2/3/4/5/6/settlers-children.jpg
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Bassam, here in Sweden and even Norway there a very clear views coming out that Israel knows every inch of Gaza. Israel has all the exact information where these UN, Red Cross and Media houses are. They know it all and still they choose to bomb them. Its not a mistake.
Bassam, here is a link to the names of 200 of the innocent Palestinian kids who have been killed:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911591418168902.html
: (
Palestinian Doctor's Daughters killed while he is interviewed on Israeli TV
you can watch the video on the link and hear the mans screams.
Dr. Ezz-El-Din Abu El-Eish (I hope I am transliterating correctly) is a Palestinian gynecologist from Beit Lahiya, in the NE corner of the Gaza Strip. He works at Israel's largest hospital, Tel Hashomer near Tel Aviv.
This impressive and peaceful man has been stranded at home during the war. Israel's Channel 10 TV has regularly interviewed him by phone about the situation. On one occasion, a tank gun aimed at his home - and Israeli media intervention saved him.
No such luck today.
(the link is a Hebrew site, the clip starts auto-playing after a few seconds. the article comes after a short commercial). What we see in the clip is Israeli anchor Shlomi Eldar holding a cellphone with Dr. Abu El-Eish on the other side, howling with misery. A tank shell has just hit his home and immediately killed three of his children (apparently they cut off the first seconds when the shell actually hit).
Text below the video frame says that the doctor's brother and two of his brother's children also died. Eldar barely holds himself from crying, and then offers help. Ambulances evacuated some of the wounded to Israel.
Transcript ->
Transcript of first 2 minutes:
Eldar: ...we have on the line Dr. Abu El-Eish, we have been talking with him over the past period... he [his home] was just shelled, his family is wounded, maybe I can replay...
Dr. Abu El-Eish: No one can get to us... (unclear)... Ya Rabi, Ya Rabi (my god).. [he continues to cry throughout while Eldar talks to the audience]
Eldar: They killed his family, over the past few days we have been... I think I'm a bit overwhelmed too because,... (tearing up) Dr. Abu El-Eish is a Tel Hashomer physician, [to the doctor] Abu El-Eish we are now in the studio, [back to the audience] and he kept fearing his family would get hurt, once this week he went on air to Gabi Gazit [another anchor], because this was the only way [apparently referring to the previous near-miss incident].... In short, he was now hit, who was hurt Abu El-Eish?
Dr. Abu El-Eish: My girls, Ya Allah, Ya Allah
[around 1:00 into clip]
Eldar: He has eight children whom he has protected throughout the war, at his home in Beit Lahiya, maybe the only thing we can do is to ask someone who can, maybe in the IDF, Abu El-Eish can you tell me where your house is, maybe they will enable ambulances to get there
Dr. Abu El-Eish: (unclear) ...to save them, to save them, but they are dead already they were hit in the head, it was in their heads [died] on the spot, on the spot, Shlomi, Ya Allah, ... what have we done, what have we done [repeatedly]... they killed the family... [more screams in the background]
The elipsis (...) marks in the anchor's speech are mostly not ommissions, rather Eldar was himself shaken and kept jumping mid-sentence to start new ones.
An IDF infantry regiment apparently responsible for the shelling,
has quickly claimed that there was sniper fire from the doctor's house. Previous such claims during this war (most notably with the UNRWA shelter
bombed a week ago killing from 30 to 40 civilians) have turned out to be bogus. They appear to be little more than a standard cover-all designed to hold until public attention turns elsewhere.
ah well, i suppose this is merely another case of a terrorist doctor using his children as human shields.
zak, perhaps you can be of service and provide more of a translation of the news cast from israel.
hey, maybe this is fake. maybe the doctor is not really a doctor in tel aviv and israeli TV is just caught up in another case of hamas propaganda.
so many options here
So you're saying that Israel deliberately targetted the UN school.
ah no would would ever think that. probably the idf is just lousy at this aiming thing. in such a little area how is one to detect a school!
everybody knows the idf just makes lots of mistakes like the hospital it shelled yesterday. the idf is taking all precautions to protect the civilians except like..not killing them. they are merely incompetent at anything but killing.
zak, i am really curious if the man says all 3 of his daughter were just killed, shot in the head.
a translation would be appreciated. i understand the howling crying, that part is the same in any language.
this is on the top slot at the rec list on the most trafficed political site on the internet. it happened today and i am sure this doctors screams will be heard all over the world.
here is the direct Youtube link
since their are no civilain males in gaza, it is just another militant using his children as human shields. oh, i already said that. maybe i shoukld say it again
muslim fathers use their children as human shields because they aren't like other parents. or so you would have us believe.
what kind of humans promote this thinking? you. israelis. for this is certainly not a trait in american jews i know, so i am not going to think this is a jewish trait. no, this is israel promoting this sick mentality for its license to kill w/indiscrimination.
zak, in the ongoing discussion we are having at the "Israel’s New War: Stopping Attacks or Gaining Back Lost Reputation?" thread you recently wrote this for me:
I will check out and respond to what you specifically ask me to check out.
hey, FYI whenever i copy text or link to something, i am specifying it. it is always your option to ignore it. in case you don't understand what that means, it means when i address you, and use your name, and answer you, the information and links are for your attention.
i am making myself clear just so there is an understanding between you and me and anyone else who reads this that addressing someone by name is already specific and it is redundant to ask to be directed specifically after you have already specifically been addressed.
here is an msnbc report of the incident. w/photo
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - The Palestinian doctor provided Israeli TV viewers with regular updates on Gaza fighting's human toll. But Friday's report was different — with sobs he told how three daughters and a niece were killed by an Israeli shell.
"I want to know why my daughters were harmed," Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish said on Channel 10. "This should haunt (Israeli Ehud Prime Minister) Olmert his entire life."
Throughout the 21-day war, Abu al-Aish has brought accounts of war's tragedy to Israeli living rooms, making him for many the voice of Palestinian suffering.
During the broadcasts, Abu al-Aish also often spoke of his fears for his eight children as Israeli shells punished not only the Hamas militants they were targeting but civilians who live in the crowded enclave. His wife reportedly died recently of cancer.
When Channel 10 called him on Friday, he answered his cell phone crying that his house in the northern Gaza strip town of Jebalia had been hit by Israeli shells and his daughters killed. Eighteen members of his extended family were in the house at the time.
Gazan officials identified Abu Al-Aish's deceased daughters as 22-year-old Bisan, 15-year-old Mayer and 14-year old Aya. His niece was identified as 14-year-old Nour Abu al-Aish.
At least two other daughters were injured.
His tragedy prompted numerous calls of concern to the station, many from people who know him.
"We all know and love him well at Soroka, and we really hope the situation gets better," Dr. Shaul Sofer, head of the ER at Soroka who taught Abu al-Aish.
Peace activist
Abu al-Aish, a 55-year-old gynecologist, is a rarity among Palestinians, a Hebrew speaker who trained in two Israeli hospitals. He is also is a known peace activist who was involved in promoting joint Israeli-Palestinian projects, and an academic who studied the affects of war on Gazan and Israeli children. He works at Gaza's main Shifa Hospital.
....
"Everyone knew we were home. Suddenly we were bombed. How can we talk to Olmert and (Foreign Minister) Tzipi Livni after this?" Abu al-Aish told television reporters at the border crossing.
"Suddenly, today when there was hope for a cease-fire, on the last day...I was speaking with my children, suddenly they bombed us. The doctor who treats Israeli patients."
You're demonizing us because its easy, and prevelant in the Arab world.
excuse me? israel is demonizing itself. one hardly has to be from 'the arab world' to find it easy to see israels actions as a demonic right now. don't go pawning this off on Bassam, he is just reacting like any normal person would, from any place in the world except apparently inside israel.
nadia, congratulations on your pregnancy. i wish you all the best for a healthy wonderful experience. i'm sure your baby will be perfect and a happy child and lucky to have such a mother as yourself. motherhood has been the best experience ever for me. it goes by much too fast so savor every minute of their lives.
Thank YOU and Thank YOU again Annie!!!!
I will always remember your kind words : )
Annie and Bassam here is a link to Gerald Kaufmann's MP speech the other day. There is such honesty in his speech.
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=OLUJ4fF2HN4
Poor doctor. I don't even know how to express what I have just seen. Words are not enough.
I used to hear the voices of the wailing and crying all the time in Iraq, especially when I went to hospitals and victims' houses to cover their stories. I can even imagine how it looked like inside that man's house.
What a tragedy!
Thanks for the link, Nadia. I've been trying to find it.
I read an article in Arabic on Al-Arabiya.net that some people are calling on a TV station to fire an anchor for her "sympathy with the enemy" because she cried on TV as she was reading the news.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/01/15/64288.html
Avram or Zak, maybe you can you verify that for us.
nadia, thru all the pain in the world it brings me hope good mothers as yourself are birthing healthy babies who will make future peace from the love of mothers such as yourself.
thank you so much for the youtube w/the english subtitles of the doctor, how very tragic.
about the jewish MP kaufman, here is the link to his speech Israel’s leaders are not simply war criminals; they are fools
here is the youtube
partial text
My parents came to Britain as refugees from Poland. Most of their families were subsequently murdered by the Nazis in the Holocaust. My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town of Staszow. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed.
My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.
On Sky News a few days ago, the spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians—the total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that
“500 of them were militants.”
That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose that the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.
The Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni asserts that her Government will have no dealings with Hamas, because they are terrorists. Tzipi Livni’s father was Eitan Livni, chief operations officer of the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi, who organised the blowing-up of the King David hotel in Jerusalem, in which 91 victims were killed, including four Jews.
Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism. Jewish terrorists hanged two British sergeants and booby-trapped their corpses. Irgun, together with the terrorist Stern gang, massacred 254 Palestinians in 1948 in the village of Deir Yassin. Today, the current Israeli Government indicate that they would be willing, in circumstances acceptable to them, to negotiate with the Palestinian President Abbas of Fatah. It is too late for that. They could have negotiated with Fatah’s previous leader, Yasser Arafat, who was a friend of mine. Instead, they besieged him in a bunker in Ramallah, where I visited him. Because of the failings of Fatah since Arafat’s death, Hamas won the Palestinian election in 2006. Hamas is a deeply nasty organisation, but it was democratically elected, and it is the only game in town. The boycotting of Hamas, including by our Government, has been a culpable error, from which dreadful consequences have followed.
The great Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban, with whom I campaigned for peace on many platforms, said:
“You make peace by talking to your enemies.”
"hey, FYI whenever i copy text or link to something, i am specifying it. it is always your option to ignore it. in case you don't understand what that means, it means when i address you, and use your name, and answer you, the information and links are for your attention."
hey annie, still waiting for a response from you on that Hamas MP...
keep me posted yeh?
"Avram or Zak, maybe you can you verify that for us."
Bassam, I don't read Arabic, but no, I don't think it is true. Convenient for some to believe that it would be though.
"this is israel promoting this sick mentality for its license to kill w/indiscrimination."
Riiiight. It' our MP's saying we love death like you love life.
Nadia, I didn't mean to offend you and I wasn't under the impression that I offended Bassam. I'm sorry if I did offend you.
Bassam accidentally linked me to a video of Palestinian children holding grenades which I found disturbing.
I was assuming that you are not the kind of person in the video, and also pointing out that Hamas don't give two flying hoots about Palestinian children dying.
When we withdrew from Gaza in 2005 we weren't hoping to come back in.
Bassam accidentally linked me to a video of Palestinian children holding grenades which I found disturbing
my recollection is that Bassam linked to the general youtube w/the search of 'gaza children'. it was a homepage like this
i went there and watched the first video, and the second, it was not what you saw zak, however i am sure if you search you can find this video you mention. but Bassam did not link to a video of a gazan child holding a grenade.
also, if you send the link you mention to everyone you know i am sure you can generate enough usage to make sure everyone associates gazan children with this grenade, but we all know this is not the truth of the matter, and we all know most palestinians parents are like parents anywhere, they love their children.
furthermore how is one supposed to protect their children from death if the only way to do it, is to release them on their own? if every male , every father, every protector, is a target..is a presumed enemy, is considered a 'militant' (since we have no statistics whatsoever of ANY male civilian casualties we must draw the proper conclusions here) then by definition a man trying to protect his children becomes a man using them as 'human shields'.
i would like to give you my opinion of this. please bear with me because i know you have all heard so many of my opinions.
there is something happening in my society i cannot ignore. it is as if people are conditioned not to think for themselves. to use any logic. i just read Bassams link on the post for Reaction on this topic can be found here. i read the comments.
how many of these people consider the logic of which they are writing? it is as of they have no free will and totally accept this 'logic' presented. they do not consider the conditions of one of the most densely populated places on the planet. they do not consider what it would mean for a man to leave his family under these conditions, they do not consider that the idea of a justification for massacring people w/the pretense, the excuse of 'the men are with the civilians'. well of course the man is with them! what are they to do? leave their wives and children for some trust they will be ok if they all go to some open place to allow the invaders to wipe all the men out?
so what? the alternative logic is they are using them for shields?
where are these people to go? what is a father to do? this human shield is the excuse for genocide, blaming the victim. are all the men to line up for slaughter and trust the women and children will be protected? was the father, the doctor to leave his family? what wife wants her husband to abandon her during war.
you show me male civilian deaths. show them to me. when every male, every protector becomes the fodder of propaganda and we like sheep , who can no longer think for ourselves believe this lie of all lies..what have we become but willing accomplices?
i am so disgusted. obviously this is going to end before obama takes office. the window is closing between the reign of the neocon. the final allowance. the big bash for excited israelis coming up to their election w/an engaged populace. when is this going to stop when? how much suffering is allowed for any people?
and iraq! truly how much are people supposed to take? i wish with all my heart there was some place, some continent that we could just leave alone for the people to sort out their own problems. for i really don't think these lies and framings and excuses and justification will ever be enough. the only way it will suffice is if enough of us will believe the lies.
"Annie and Bassam here is a link to Gerald Kaufmann's MP speech the other day. There is such honesty in his speech.
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=OLUJ4fF2HN4"
Read what Robert Fisk says about this kind of comparison - I'm surprised you haven't yet gone the way of Neturei Karta.
Congrats on your pregnancy. Let's hope for a healthy baby who can one day see a world where we learn to respect those who are different.
From today's Haaretz, Israel's left wing newspaper:
"Palestinian civilians have accused Hamas of forcing them to stay in homes from which gunmen shot at Israeli soldiers during the recent hostilities in Gaza, the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported Thursday.
More than 1,250 Palestinians were reportedly killed during Israel's offensive against Hamas in the coastal territory. According to estimates by Gaza officials, more than half of the Palestinian dead were civilians.
But the Italian paper quoted a doctor at Gaza City's Shifa Hospital as saying that, "It's possible that the death toll in Gaza was 500 or 600 at the most, mostly youths aged 17 to 23 who were enlisted by Hamas - who sent them to their deaths."
The officer asserted that despite international calls for investigations into alleged war crimes, the Israel Defense Forces soldiers adhered to moral principles while fighting in Gaza.
yada yada yada
"It's possible that the death toll in Gaza was 500 or 600 at the most, mostly youths aged 17 to 23 who were enlisted by Hamas - who sent them to their deaths."
it is also possible that the mothers ate their younge. it is also possible since this alleged doctor who wasn't identified didn't really exist.
How Israel's Propaganda Machine Works
wonderful retort Annie - this again shows how sadly biased you are. The reporter (Cremosi I think) is an Italian writing for the largest publication in Italy, and from what I've gathered (ie I asked non-Jewish Italians), it's fairly down the middle politically. He went to hospitals in the Gaza area and found they were not full (so the 5000+ injured is also most likely a lie). He cannot quote the doctor's name, as many of these eye witnesses never do (you should know that already, ever heard of 'collaborators' or the BS term they use for anyone they want to execute?)
I know it's hard for your Annie - You live in a world where everything you read that doesn't fall in line with your hard core 'I am always right' (and can back it up with internet articles from eveeeeeerywhere, heck Jews killed Kennedy too, I have a link!) and 'They are always wrong' mantra shakes you.
It's ok, I now await the 'ad hominadnfafd crutch' line you love to use. It's people like you on both sides of this conflict that are the reason this region struggles for peace ...
I know it's hard for your Annie
do not flatter yourself, it is not hard at all for me to easily deflect any source saying there were only 500 to 600 deaths.
try harder avram, this is not your best moment, you cannot will all those palestinian deaths away.
He went to hospitals in the Gaza area and found they were not full (so the 5000+ injured is also most likely a lie).
because the one italian reporter alleges one anon doctor says so? and everyone else is lying? arvam, what is very hard, is all this death. not your fantasy this report is correct. excuse me for not taking this (you )seriously about this report.
and as for the blathering about what is and is not hard for me, could you try sticking to the regular debate mode, and try to refrain from playing therapist or psychologist. its stupid.
Jews killed Kennedy too, I have a link!
apparently nothing i write is wacko enough for your allegations you have to resort to creating them from your imagination. does this work at your college debate team?
once again, jewish humor
Jewish humour is rooted in several traditions. The first is the intellectual and legal methods of the Talmud, which uses elaborate legal arguments and situations often seen as so absurd as to be humorous in order to tease out the meaning of religious law. [1].
Hillel Halkin in his essay about Jewish humour[2] traces some roots of the Jewish self-deprecating humour to the medieval influence of Arabic traditions on the Hebrew literature by quoting a witticism from Yehuda Alharizi's Tahkemoni.
let's just say i don't think much of comparing the fact of 1300 palestinian deaths w/the allegation a jew (or jews) killed kennedy. and i am not about to make a joke about who killed your president. let's just say i like my jewish humor confined to the likes of the seinfeldian genre, or lenny, or something beside dead kids. it doesn't serve you avram. also note you are trying to conflate i am using thre anti semite canard of 'the jews did it!". i mean geez avram. i think everyone already knows who the idf are and who they represent, and that is certainly not ALL the friggin jews, that for sure.
now move along and grow up and try to argue in a reasonable fashion.
no, i am not debating this figure w/you, its a waste of my time.
"try harder avram, this is not your best moment, you cannot will all those palestinian deaths away"
I bet you also think the '500' who died in Jenin were willed away by the UN, the world and those evil Zionists? Or the fact that the 'truth' ran the marathon, and the lies ran 100 meter sprints?
The truth will come out and I've said all along, when you're getting figures from Hamas (as most of them were), they're bound to be exaggerated. I'm surprised however that you don't want this Italian reporter to be right (I somehow doubt he's just lying for the sake of it) - if he's right, far less people died or were injured. That's better, no?
"apparently nothing i write is wacko enough for your allegations you have to resort to creating them from your imagination."
Go check out the virulent anti-Israel/anti-Zionist/Anti-Semitic sites and you'll find that there. I don't have time, nor the imagination, to create that - but I did read it to understand to what depths people will 'create' stories to slander Israel.
a few links, if you're interested:
sydney herald, interviewing palestinian ambulance drivers:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hamas-tried-to-hijack-ambulances-during-gaza-war/2009/01/25/1232818246374.html
Der Spiegel, 'Who has won here?'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,603203,00.html
IDF: Only 250 Civilians
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3661940,00.html
The IDF one I'm linking despite the fact I know you'll take it as absolute lies - but it's just interesting as they say 250 civilians out of 900 dead. So we have
Italian @ 600
IDF @ 900
Palestinians @ 1200
Now I know you believe the Palestinians - but I tend to believe it's somewhere between 600-900 and if the civilian count is low, and that's all that really matters to me as those people that are sadly right in the middle and do not deserve this faith, then I'll be happy.
Btw, Jewish humor is different for every Jew. I wonder if you can tell me, from Wiki, what Muslim humor is like? Or Christian humor?
Re your first comment, Zak, here is a picture that is very similar to what Hamas does with their children!
http://bashir-alaa.blogspot.com/2009/01/no-comment.html
Go check out the virulent anti-Israel/anti-Zionist/Anti-Semitic sites and you'll find that there.
yes, well i am not anti semetic nor do i hang out on anti semetic sites, so try to keep your allegations within reason, and if you are going to accuse me of such, use something i have said.
what point are you trying to make arvam? that israel didn't commit war crimes? whole neighborhoods have been bulldozed. guess you didn't take me seriously when i said i am not debating this figure w/you, its a waste of my time.
.....
I wonder if you can tell me, from Wiki, what Muslim humor is like?
jewish culture is very well represented on wiki (check out all the links!). muslim culture? not so much, and what is written doesn't sound like it was written by muslims. the first catergory is
'Terminological disagreement'
Muslim culture is itself a contentious term. Muslims live in many different countries and communities, and it can be difficult to isolate much that unifies them other than the religion of Islam.
booooring.
apparently no one has made a link on wiki about muslim humor, but there are other sources on google. i like this
A king wanted to test his advisor. He asked him, “What is the best thing that may be given to a person as rizq (sustenance)?” The man responded, “An intellect by which to live.” The king then asked, “And if he cannot have that?” He said, “Character that beautifies him.” “If not that?” “Wealth to cover him (his needs and his weaknesses).” “If not that?” “A bolt of lightening that to burn him and relieve the people and the land of his presence.”
lol
the Hoopoe bird came to prophet Suleiman, peace be upon him, and wanted to invite him for a meal. Suleiman (pbuh) asked, “I alone?” and the bird said, “No. You and your entire army. Meet me on such and such island at such and such time.” When Suleiman (pbuh) and the army gathered the bird flew up, caught a locust, strangled it, and threw it into the ocean. Then he said, “Go ahead and enjoy. If you don’t get any of the meat, you can enjoy the broth!” Suleiman (pbuh) and his soldier laughed at this a whole year.
lol
i think some people make better use of wiki. but i didn't originally go to wiki, i just googled jewish humor to see if i could find a source for the constant use of ridiculous outrageous hypotheticals supporters of israel seem to use w/regularity and boing, there it was.
humor in many cultures makes extensive use of exaggeration in humor of course, but being used as a rhetorical tool as form of ridicule in debate, often w/strawmen or ad hominems....hmm.. food for thought.
let's just say i'm not a fan of merging insulting humor and oppression.
okay! i take that back sometimes i really like mixing humor and oppression!
but sorry avram, you're in a different league than jon stewart!
"Go check out the virulent anti-Israel/anti-Zionist/Anti-Semitic sites and you'll find that there.
yes, well i am not anti semetic nor do i hang out on anti semetic sites, so try to keep your allegations within reason, and if you are going to accuse me of such, use something i have said."
Are you reading what I'm saying?!?! Did I imply you were?!? You told me I 'made up the Kennedy-Jew link' and I said, I DIDN'T ... I read those sites every once in a while. I think it's important to understand 'their' logic, even if it's sick n' twisted.
So Wiki is your source now of how to define 'Jewish humor'? Just rent a few videos of famous Jewish/Israeli comedians, you'll get a better understanding that way.
a disturbing picture Bassam.
Did I imply you were?!?
ahhh, kinda! your hard core 'I am always right' (and can back it up with internet articles from eveeeeeerywhere, heck Jews killed Kennedy too, I have a link!)
......
You told me I 'made up the Kennedy-Jew link' and I said, I DIDN'T
sorry arvam, i thought when you attributed it to me and said 'i have a link!' you were implying that i was the sort of person who went to those sites, and linked to them.
if i want jewish humor all i have to do is turn on the TV. i wasn't trying to 'define' it, i wouldn't know how to go about doing that. i was trying to read up on it to see if i could find a source for a theme i noticed.
http://mesi.org.uk/ViewPoint.aspx?ArticleId=25
Please note, the sources here are from UNWRA. I'm glad no innocent people inside the school died. It's sad that so many lies were created yet again in order to push anti-Israel sentiment in the world.
It's sad that so many lies were created yet again in order to push anti-Israel sentiment in the world.
poor poor israel, always misunderstood.
1/7/09 NEW YORK TIMES
1/7/09 NEW YORK TIMES
Mouen Deb, left, mourned with relatives beside the bodies of two of his children and his wife, who were killed when Israeli shells exploded near a United Nations school in Jabaliya in northern Gaza.
......
JABALIYA, Gaza — The bodies of the children who died outside the United Nations school here were laid out in a long row on the ground. Some were wrapped in the vivid green flag of Hamas, some were in white shrouds, and some were in the yellow flag of Fatah, which is rarely seen these days in Hamas-run Gaza.
.....
The streets were crowded Tuesday evening when the mortar shells struck, Mr. Hasan said. “We were in a United Nations school, we were so far from the tanks.” There were many children around, and he gave Lina a shekel to run to a nearby grocery store. She was hit by shrapnel and died.
......
But Al Fakhura, set in the northern part of the densely packed Jabaliya refugee camp north of Gaza City, is in a crowded neighborhood full of Hamas fighters. Israel said that a preliminary investigation showed that mortar fire from the school compound prompted Israeli forces to return fire. The Israeli mortar rounds killed as many as 40 people outside the school
now..whose spokesperson would be making anyone think israel shot at the school?????????
jan 6th rueters
John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, said the death toll in the Israeli artillery strike near the school in Jabalya refugee camp was 30 dead with another 55 people injured.
Medical officials on the spot have said more than 40 people were killed.
Ging told reporters at U.N. headquarters by videolink from Gaza that three artillery shells landed at the perimeter of the school where 350 people were taking shelter.
...
Ging also said three Palestinians were killed in a separate Israeli air strike near another U.N. school in an area where there was no fighting at the time.
On Tuesday morning a building next to a U.N. health center was hit by Israeli fire and 10 people were injured, including seven staff and three patients at the health center, he said.
Another shell landed near a third U.N. school on Tuesday but it was empty, Ging said.
TIME MAGAZINE jan 7th
But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard... The IDF gave the names of two Hamas combatants it says were killed inside the school — Imad and Hassan Abu Askar — who allegedly fired the mortars
here are the FACTS ARVAM. the time magazine reporter was NOT IN GAZA. nor was the NYT, nor reuters ..THIS WAS ISRAELS PLAN...TO CONTROL the MESSAGE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY.
so if you want to blame people for giving the wrong impression..blame israel.
You're very smart at finding a few sources that prove your point (which in this case, they partially do):
how about all the sources that proved what the article were saying? Ie the Sky and BBC reports? or:
http://www.who.int/hac/crises/international/wbgs/sitreps/gaza_6jan2009/en/index.html
(the UN mouthpiece)
"42 people were killed 6 Jan IN AN UNRWA school in an Israeli attack."
Far, and I mean FAR too many, people reported this wrong at the beginning - just as they did with Jenin, Al Dura and now this war. Yes, innocents died. I have never once denied that. But to promote lies is sickening and that is what happened here (despite your few examples).
I'm not sure if I said something 'bad' in my last post as it hasn't been approved by Bassam but I linked the official UN website's link after the attack and they clearly said IN THE school -
You're very smart
not really, i just went to the mainstream reports that came out early on. i always thought most of the dead were outside the school. frankly, i think this is a non issue wrt propaganda.
arvam, as i demonstrated in my post, the idf spokesperson (who spoke w/authority as an official spokesperson which for many news sources was the only authority to consult given the israeli demand that no reporters be allowed into the war zone) specifically stated the idf was responding to rocket fire from the school, and that they had killed to terrorists inside the school.
one might assume this is how the 'rumor' got started. however, anyone googling the story can easily find the idf attack killed 40 people right outside the relief organization harboring civilians in a war torn area.
what difference does it make? do you think we should feel sad for the injustice the idf have had to endure to its reputation caused by the idf spokesperson? most people are more concerned about the people who died.
"what difference does it make? do you think we should feel sad for the injustice the idf have had to endure to its reputation caused by the idf spokesperson? most people are more concerned about the people who died."
Last sentence = if true, then I have no issue with it. But going by the sh*t Israel has taken (when it HASN'T deserved it) for example for Palestinians butchering Al Dura or lying about massacres in Jenin, most people jump on these things with slightly different motives. That is all, and I think even you can admit that.
'most people' have common sense arvam.
'most people' can look at how many palestinians have died, vs israelis.
believe me, if most israelis were fighting w/rocks and the palestinians had bulldozers, tanks and airplanes, the concept of israeli expansionist aggression would be a moot point. That is all, and I think even you can admit that.
I've removed some of my last post as I think I 'overdid' it and said things that are inappropriate. For that, I apologize to Annie. The 'edited' post:
""'most people' have common sense arvam."
You sadly are so stubborn that you lack it far too often. A person who thinks "I'm always right" (which you seemingly do on this subject)lacks common sense ... none of us have 'all' the answers.
"'most people' can look at how many palestinians have died, vs israelis."
So if more Israelis had died, you'd be ok? Basically, you're all about #s ... sad.
yes, sticks and stones, and suicide belts on buses, and 8,000+ rockets etc ... Keep on going Annie - I would hope even pro-Palestinian posters can see through your biased anti-Israel stance."
PS - can you PLEASE spell my name properly?
avram! i am sorry i spelled your name wrong. i will try to not do that again. i was looking for an old link and observed your last comment to me.
wrt "I'm always right" (which you seemingly do
let's just stick to what we do, not what we seeemingly do, ok? i know it seems when you cannot counter my arguments it may appear to you i think i am always right. perhaps in this instance i am right, and you simply can't accept it.
So if more Israelis had died, you'd be ok?
avram, i think you are missing the point, no deaths are ok. ever.
yes, sticks and stones, and suicide belts on buses, and 8,000+ rockets etc ... Keep on going Annie
2 can play that game avram. there is strong motive on both sides, israel is not the benign victim here, and you know it.
for some reason you latched onto this meme that the attack outside the school was some broha of propaganda, i am not sure how this entered into your argument as being worthy of this thread, but i debunked it easily. so you resort to ad hominems.
clearly, we are on opposite sides of this issue. but seriously, i don't think there is any rationality behind assuming i am going to be more inclined to be pro palestinian than you are to be pro israeli. so attacking my argument baised on what you see as my bias, can easily be turned on you as well. what is the point of this line of thinking? especially to attack my 'common sense', of which i happen to have in abundance.
israel has a very well oiled machine wrt its propaganda, which it freely admits. there must be a better way to argue than w/strawmen and ad hominems. you can't get anywhere by simply demonizing your enemy.
we need solutions avram, i am not your enemy.
" know it seems when you cannot counter my arguments it may appear to you i think i am always right."
If that's what works for you, ok.
"israel is not the benign victim here, and you know it."
NEVER said we were, and yet you definitely imply the Palestinians are by not ONCE criticizing their stunts.
" i am not sure how this entered into your argument as being worthy of this thread, but i debunked it easily"
True/False - the UN said the attack was INSIDE the school.
I guess you didn't debunk it (unless you want to say false and deny the UN report I posted)
"especially to attack my 'common sense', of which i happen to have in abundance."
humble too I see. good quality.
"we need solutions avram, i am not your enemy."
You aren't my enemy, but you certainly aren't an 'ally' of the train of thought that 'both people made grave errors since the 1920s to allow the problem to get so out of hand'. In fact, have you said anything bad about the Palestinians in any of these threads?
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