CNN's Campell Brown takes on Bush over Bin Laden. In a recent interview with CNN's Larry King, the soon-to-leave president said he didn't know whether the U.S. had ever come close to capturing bin Laden. Watch here:
1.15.2009
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28 Comments:
Well Bush can not run for ever either.
Sooner or later he too will be brought to justice.
I wonder what sort of justice he would like?
Guantanamo?
Iraqi courts which he claimed are fair?
US courts or some international tribunal?
I would vote for an international tribunal. But I guess a lot might want to give him the US justice with the death penalty still being active there.
I think the shame he's going to live with for the rest of his life will haunt him forever. He'll never be a normal human being, as he never was.
I watched the entire interview on CNN and thought that it was very clear on his face that he's leaving with some sort of disappointment. He basically disappointed his own people in the first place. Obama's victory was a clear message to him that the Americans desperately need change and that they found it in Obama and the Democratic party. It's amazing how many undecided voters and republicans became democrats. I love this new age in America.
"I love this new age in America."
I remember people saying that when Clinton was elected ... and then people got tired of him. Enjoy it while you can, it won't last more than 4-8 years.
Avram,
After seeing what Bush had done to my country and the horror I had to go through because of his ignorance, stupidity, and the bad post-war planning, Obama is my god.
I remember people saying that when Clinton was elected ... and then people got tired of him.
no they did not. they got tired of ken star and years and years of stupid gop harrassment and stupid impeachment over monica. the gop couldn't stand how much clinton was a success. he will go down as being the president during one of the most fruitful periods of the century.
you just love the little pooch of the neocons. he is hated all over the world, and cheney is the most evil vile character to ever be near the oval office.
a national disgrace, leading our country to war and being responsible for a million deaths and the ruination of a beautiful society, a beautiful baghdad, a beautiful culture.
bush/cheney is our global nightmare.
all they needed was 8 years to drag our country to the pit of moral degredation.
"he will go down as being the president during one of the most fruitful periods of the century."
Well thanks to Al Gore inventing the internet & Clinton's incredible hand in the dot com boom obviously! How about the president who ignored the obvious build up of Al-Qaida? Or the president who refused to take them on (in some capacity, be it more intelligence etc) after Tanzania/Kenya & USS Cole? Or the president who pushed Arafat so hard at Camp David to better his legacy that Arafat was left having to refuse Camp David outright (& shortly, the 2nd intifada commenced)? I could go on ...
"you just love the little pooch of the neocons."
Making assumptions about me to push your point? Sheesh, you are really bad at this too. I didn't like Bush pre-9/11 & I didn't like him afterwards. I thought the war in Iraq would destabilize the region greatly. I thought he was terrible for Israel. But go on, make stupid assumptions about me - it makes you look real smart.
"a beautiful society, a beautiful baghdad, a beautiful culture."
Yes, Saddam's soceity was beautiful. The culture still is beautiful (without going into the issues with Jews or the Northern neighbors, though I assume the latter was a Saddam thing more than Iraqi).
"Obama is my god"
Be careful Bassam ... he is after all a human being ... and a politician. It's not so wise to put too much trust in them politicians, no matter what 'side of the spectrum' they & you are on..
"Be careful Bassam ... he is after all a human being ... and a politician."
It was a metaphor, Avram. He gave me hope and make me believe in the good world. I love him for that.
I know it was - but I guess you needed hope and this man provided it for you. I have a bad feeling you'll be let down after Obama is done with his term(s) - not because he'd have done a bad job but because he wouldn't have done everything you had hoped for after his brilliant pre-election speeches.
How about the president who ignored the obvious build up of Al-Qaida?
ignored? not according to the the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council, richard clark Special Advisor to the bush on cybersecurity and cyberterrorism.. clinton held DAILY meetings, it was cheneyco who ignored and then fueled AQ which was nary a flicker compared to its numbers today. 9/11 didn't happen on clinton's watch, so don't go rewriting history. we will never know all clinton could have accomplished had he not had a constant barrage of legal harrassment from the gop which included dragging his wife into the frey and that stip whitewater which hinged on the ridiculously piddley sum of $100,000 which is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the billions in thievery of no bid contracts and money siphoned off the teet of war, blood money.
save your breath as you protect the one you claim to not be a fan of. it is all well and good to bemoan the iraq war now and claim you were once against it,as so many of the neocons now claim, but where was your voice in the run up to the war? nary a sound of warning of the pitfalls from the israel first crowd around that time as i recall.
whatever, claim away. your words speak for themselves, all the same talking pts from the rightwing such as blaming clinton for AQ. phff
Bassam, i hope you are going to the festivities!
the We Are One celebration kicks off at the Lincoln Memorial, with President-Elect Obama and Vice President-Elect Biden in attendance. Beginning at 2:30 (EST), there will be readings from Jamie Foxx, Martin Luther King III, Queen Latifah and Denzel Washington, and musical performances by Bono, Bruce Springsteen, Mary J. Blige, Herbie Hancock, and Stevie Wonder, among others.
If you'd like to attend, the event is free and open to the public, with entrances at: Constitution Avenue at 19th Street, Constitution Avenue at Virginia Avenue, 17th Street at North Elm Walk, 17th Street at South Elm Walk, Independence Avenue at the DC War Memorial. Space will also be available on a first-come, first-served basis at the Reflecting Pool area, JFK Hockey Fields and Constitution Gardens.
if i were in DC i would be partying!
"a beautiful society, a beautiful baghdad, a beautiful culture."
Yes, Saddam's soceity was beautiful.
iraq was no more saddam's society than america was bush's. it was not heaven to say the least. but it was also not a walled up prison w/carrion circling overhead ready to sweep in and barter over their share of the carcass.
in the midst of the middle east iraq was a shining star before our sanctions, the most secular society, the most opportunity for women, the best education of the continent. don't think you can erase this! iraq was a society that had its massive problems like all others but one could navigate and bond and associate and love and marry and live in a multi sect society. neighborhoods were not segregated by sect for safety. the vibrant arts, the beauty i have seen from photos, the education i heave read about, the poise and demeanor i have experience, the manners instilled even for adversaries. saddam couldn't live forever. he was one man. what we have done to iraq, the cradle of civilization! don't even get me started . for a people who perserved our history, mankind's history, the respect of not just their culture, but the culture of man. we , america in one war, one new child of a country, we have destroyed this. it disgraces me, it shames me. history will have it's say. saddam, phff . one man. not even 1/2 a century! we destroyed mankinds history and the society that protected it for centuries.
i spit on this. i throw a shoe at this. i am shamed by this. and you snark at it?
"a beautiful society, a beautiful baghdad, a beautiful culture."
war. a million dead. a generation of children. all the men were targets, all of them. and this blood on my conscious. i will never forget. baghdad bleeds in me and i have not ever breathed her air.
you say The culture still is beautiful when how many of that culture are living as refugees? without work or the security they can even return home. to homes taken over, to the walled place?
god i hope obama has some ideas. i do not have much faith in these bush puppets aliegned w/iran. i am at a total loss. we need a miracle, several miracles.
Annie - Are you always this aggressive? You jump and attack like some raving Zionist or something, sheesh, chill out woman.
"save your breath as you protect the one you claim to not be a fan of. it is all well and good to bemoan the iraq war now and claim you were once against it,as so many of the neocons now claim, but where was your voice in the run up to the war? nary a sound of warning of the pitfalls from the israel first crowd around that time as i recall."
Trying to run away from your false assumption? Just say, "Ok I was wrong". You're a human being, you'll err, no embarrassment. I DO NOT live in the US, so that's the reason you couldn't hear my voice - sorry for not using a speaker. If you're telling me now how I felt, I would like to know if this is something we can all learn to do?
You have no idea what was happening inside Israel - so 'I recall' means you're guessing/assuming. Just ask if you don't know, it won't kill you.
"the most opportunity for women"
better than Israel? if anything, equal, but not 'most'. Be rational.
"the best education of the continent"
Better than Japan? Better than Russia? I won't even bother saying Israel because I think our education system is quite poor tbh.
You only focus on good - should we discuss the treatment of Jews for centuries? Their 2nd class status? Or would you rather we ignore that?
I think you're very very proud of Iraq, which is a good thing. It's something that you'll hopefully not lose, and you'll see a 'rebirth' of it in your lifetime once the country rebuilds herself.
But you allow your passion to lead to anger and to a rather sad 'I own the truth, bow down to me' attitude. As I said earlier, relax, read, digest, talk to me with respect and I will act the same way to you.
saddam couldn't live forever. he was one man.
With two sons. Qusay was to be his successor. You are naive, Annie, if you think that Saddam's regime would die with his death.
remember people saying that when Clinton was elected ... and then people got tired of him.
no they did not.
Please, spare me your blinkered view of Bill Clinton. Even now the chickens are coming home to roost from some of the things he signed in to law. And, maybe, if Clinton had kept his pants zipped and stayed out of the closet he might have been able to focus on what he was elected to do.
the manners instilled even for adversaries.
Was that drilling holes in people or chopping off heads? Or maybe it is the sexually demeaning attitudes displayed toward women? Exactly which "manners" were you referring to, Annie?
in the midst of the middle east iraq was a shining star before our sanctions,
Like all civilizations Iraq had its good, its bad and its ugly. Saddam hit both of those last two points.
god i hope obama has some ideas.
Everyone does, Annie. But I can say with almost 100% certainty that he won't please everyone.
Are you always this aggressive
in debate? usually yes. but yesterday i spent 5 hrs in my garden w/a friend while listening to hawiian music.
;)
i absolutely have fire in my belly. but you must not mistake the passion of my writing w/my disposition, for you would be sorely mistaken. certain days it gets to me i suppose and i may become very sad over the state of things, but i do not go thru my life in anger. i am smiling quite well while i am writing this and see it as a challenge to combat propaganda.
if you care to chat, there is a topic on the other thread zak has been willfully ignoring..
;)
furthermore, making ad hominem strawman arguments is merely a tactic. why don't you try reading my words w/a measured voice in your mind. if there is something i have written you can't imaging being spoken by in that tone, present it to me and i will rephrase it if it seems impossibly angry.
You jump and attack like some raving Zionist or something
where? raving zionists do not jump and attack, for the most part they use crutchs (ad hominems/strawman and disinformation) for a demonstration of a raving zionist check out billy kristol, he is incredibly insulting and all w/a smile on his face. of course there are exceptions like ann coulter, whatever.
Trying to run away from your false assumption? Just say, "Ok I was wrong".
i am not of the opinion i am under any fase assumptions, i am simply being honest and revealing to you what i believe, i will stick to it regardless of your assertions to the contrary.
Just ask if you don't know, it won't kill you.
yes, i am well aware there is an extremely vibrant peace movement inside israel that existed prior to our invasion of iraq. their voices are quite clear. by all means link me to anyone of them who protested the war in iraq and defend israels present action wrt gaza. then i may take you claims seriously. as far as i know the anti war movement doesn't have its 'good oppression' wars.
"the best education of the continent"
Better than Japan? Better than Russia?
excuse me, i should have said the middle east. I WAS WRONG!
"the most opportunity for women"
better than Israel?
err, my mistake. i think of israel as a western country plopped down in the middle east. we have a saying, you can take the girl out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the girl. i just don't think of the culture of israel as middle eastern since most of the middleeasterners (arabs) in their culture are marginalized. i think of israel as transplanted europeans and russians. but that is just me. i am sure israelis have adopted many aspects of middleeastern cultures and adopted them as their own tradition. like this
You are naive, Annie, if you think that Saddam's regime would die with his death.
i would have preferred if iraqis settled this without our meddling. he was no threat to us, but we have covered this before lynn.
Please, spare me your blinkered view of Bill Clinton.
i don't know what a blinkered view is, i have plenty of problems w/choices clinton made, screwing monica isn't one of them. but alas, he is still very very well loved, had he not been there is no way hillary could have made her run.
the poise and demeanor i have experience, the manners instilled even for adversaries.
Was that drilling holes in people or chopping off heads?
you mean the death squads that happened w/the encouragement of the US, and the AQ head chopping that was imported w/the war.
let's stop lynn, just stop w/the iraqi culture bashing argument on our hosts blog. go ahead and muse about how much better iraq is going to be decades in the future.
here's a video just for you, muse about the future.
this is right up your alley!
Annie -
Thanks for your respectful response. I'd like to make three points
1) You seem to have this feeling that anything a 'Zionist' says is propaganda, while you hold onto the truth. Do you honestly think you know all the answers and that 'we' know all the lies? Surely you cannot live in such a black n' white world
2) "i think of israel as transplanted europeans and russians. but that is just me."
I'm sure you'll be able to confirm that for most of Israel's existence (up until the early 90s), a majority of Israel's population was compromised of Mizrachi (Arab origin) Jews - ie the 850,000-1,000,000 Jews who were expelled from the Arab world. They lost 30 billion USD in assets & land larger than the state of Israel. But few know of thier nakba.
3) Perhaps we should ask Bassam about the Education system in Iraq and what they taught about Jews. If recent analysis is anything to go by (I think it was the Pew Analysis), the advanced education doesn't teach such nice stuff about us Jews, eh?
"i don't know what a blinkered view is, i have plenty of problems w/choices clinton made, screwing monica isn't one of them."
You are ok with a man cheating on his wife? Please tell me you aren't really saying you have no issues with this ...
1). first you make a false assumption followed by a conclusion based on your false assumption. then you ask me a question based on your conclusion of your false assumption.
that is called a strawman. it also is an ad hominem attack.
regarding your false assumption. there are many zionists, may indeed who have much to say i would not classify as propaganda. from their homepage
While the military response by the Israeli Defense forces can be understood and even justified in the wake of recent Hamas rocket attacks, we believe that a military response that is disproportionate and escalatory will ultimately prove counterproductive, igniting further anger in the region and damaging long-term prospects for peace and stability for Israel, the Palestinians, the whole region.
2) i am aware of israels 2nd class citizens. how i think of israel is how israel presents itself. the blond idf spokesperson for example. i qualified my statement by saying 'but that is just me', meaning it is based on my 'impression'. perhaps if israel seeks to promote itself as more middleeasterners (arabs), it could do more to promote there citizens who are arab, instead we get news reports of the knesset trying to keep them from running for office.
3)
the advanced education system deals w/facts. the facts regarding israel lately are not very nice. Jonah Goldberg has an organization that monitors universities to prevent them from criticizing israel. as far as 'the jews' or 'us jews' as you call them, i don't even travel in that language and condemn others who do. my personal experience (and upbringing) prevents me from categorizing in this way for i am well aware the of actors of the peace movement led by many jewish activists (i'm going to a potluck w/many of them monday night!).
finally, as far as politicians go, we all choose our battles. what a person does w/their sex life is their own business and none of my concern unless they are living a hypocritical lifestyle that impacts my life ie: passing legislation that prevents others from freedom of choice while using those freedoms to carry on. as long as someone is not breaking the law (violence towards children etc) it isn't my business whether it happens in my neighborhood or the white house. if it impacts my family or my personal life that is another story. the long drawn out legal issues surrounding the clintons hindered him in doing his job, which i suppose was the point, to keep dems from winning in the next election and for the gop to run on the mantel of 'family values' even tho facts point to many personally deranged goppers.
Research shows that up to 40 percent of women will cheat on their partners, and more than 50 percent of all men will do the same.
seriously, i have no problem w/this. there are much more important things for me to worry about in the world. what others choose to do in their relationships is not for me to judge. the only time i recall having ever really chafed at an instance of a public figure being unfaithful was when woody allen ran off w/his wife's adopted daughter. this totally grossed me out and i didn't watch a woody allen film for almost a decade, but i saw his last flick because i am over it now.
"Research shows that up to 40 percent of women will cheat on their partners, and more than 50 percent of all men will do the same.
seriously, i have no problem w/this"
Another reason why society, and the US in particular, is decaying ...
Another reason why society, and the US in particular, is decaying ...
here is the thing arvam, usually when these people cheat, it isn't something the whole world knows about, or even the neighbors. so how can i get upset about something that i hardly hear of, and if i do hear of it..i know it is happening all around us every day and not breaking any laws.
hey, did you hear the latest news on ted haggard. this is the 'moral majority' or the 'values voter'.
speaking of a culture w/decay..what do you think of this?:
JERUSALEM – It's been nearly three years since Ariela Dadon began trying to divorce her abusive husband. But she can't gain her freedom or the right to remarry because her estranged husband has refused to grant her a get, a Jewish divorce writ that can only be given by a man to his wife - never the other way around.
"We and others who are denied a get are like prisoners who can't get a pardon," says Ms. Dadon, who is raising two small children while she puts herself through graduate school in accounting.
She also makes endless visits to religious courts in a bid to get the judges to force her husband's hand. The catch: He won't do so unless she forfeits child support, among other demands.
hmm the neighbors sex life, or a system that allows the abuser the right to release his victim..hmmm...
tough choice! not.
That is a major problem that you highlight, and I hope there is a change to it. While I think Jewish Law in this regard is important, I think it allows the man to screw the woman over and it's rather sickening/unfair/'un'Jewish. It needs to be amended asap - I just hope the 'Modern Orthodox' world has a way of doing it as I cannot see this change coming from the Ultra Orthodox world.
I just hope the 'Modern Orthodox' world has a way of doing it as I cannot see this change coming from the Ultra Orthodox world.
maybe israel could adopt some separation of church and state regarding civil marriages, or offer people a choice of either a court wedding, or religious.
i find the whole religious merging into state odd in a democracy.
it's rather sickening/unfair/'un'Jewish.
well, there is jewish, and then there is jewish. are you saying the religion doesn't always suit jews? i guess that's the cross to bear when your ethnicity is defined by your ancestors religion.
in the US jews get to divorce just like everybody else, thank god. and they still get to practice there religion however they want, as it should be. but as far as it being 'unjewish', well that's kind of an odd thing to say. there are jews who think having a state is 'unjewish'.
While I think Jewish Law in this regard is important
what is the difference between jewish law and israeli law? are there any laws that conflict between the two? if there is, who wins?
what percentage of the population in israel is secular? do these people have to follow jewish law, or can they just follow israeli law?
here, lots of jews are just regular, like me. no religion.
"are you saying the religion doesn't always suit jews?"
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that taking advantage of a the rule to screw up a woman's life is sick. And there's not enough done against the 'man' to ensure he isn't pull these stunts.
"what is the difference between jewish law and israeli law? are there any laws that conflict between the two? if there is, who wins?"
I don't know where there is a direct conflict within the law, but in marriage/divorce etc, it's done via the religious way.
"what percentage of the population in israel is secular? do these people have to follow jewish law, or can they just follow israeli law?"
I don't know the exact % but I assume it's 55-65. Jewish law again isn't 'Israel's law' but it is the law for some things within our society. So if you don't want to get married by 'Jewish law', you go to Cyprus or have an unrecognized marriage.
"here, lots of jews are just regular, like me. no religion."
I know, I lived in the US.
So if you don't want to get married by 'Jewish law', you go to Cyprus or have an unrecognized marriage.
kind of like what gay people have to do here. hmm
so is it jewish law that prevents people from marrying outside their religion, or israeli law?
arvam, were you raised here? are you a settler?
I don't know where there is a direct conflict within the law
how about a little indirect conflict? the reason i ask is i am wondering if this democracy is allowed to vote for anything not allowed in your religion?
like in the states we have the option of changing our laws and sometimes they don't conform to one religion or another. it is the people who decide. so if there were 55% of the people, and they wanted the marriages to be optional of the court system, like they are hear, for people who are secular, could they vote like that?
because how is their a certainty of democratic rule if it is confined within a framework that has to be approved by the religion?
"so is it jewish law that prevents people from marrying outside their religion, or israeli law?"
Well the Jewish law is Israeli law, so it's both by default.
"arvam, were you raised here? are you a settler?"
I am not a 'settler' unless you believe all of Israel is 'settling'.
I was raised in South Africa, Israel, Turkey, Italy, England & the US. A child of the world as they say.
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